There seems to be a concerted effort to censor discussions generally to offer only those selected views that the "greenhouse guru's" prefer to have noticed. I mention this only as to the high level of nonsense those 'produced pantomimes' of the 'greenhouse gurus' contain, and which it is demanded that 'we believe'.
One such supposed 'energy source' seemingly so invovled and beginning its 'talking up' process is Steam, and after noticing an article in the weekend News that there might be a lobby for reintroduction of Steam Trains in NSW it needs to be realised that the DROUGHT is not only confined to the City based water catchments and no matter HOW efficient a 'British design' is, it is NOT the coal firing of the 'boiler' that is the issue. That the Diesel fuelled 'trains' could easily combust bio-oil even processed from that Coal, or Gas even and avoid any need to rely on scarce and dwindling water seems to be still unrealised, or perhaps the 'lobby effort' is to talk around that reality.
Another 'alternate energy concept', seemingly the next 'idea' to have began the 'attempted talk up' (generally beginning by 'Internet based mass propaganda' is the well known concept of SCIENCE of 'Zero Point Energy'. There is not any REAL solution to electrical supply 'blackout' however to be found in 'ZPE', there is in fact barley any to be found in Wind Power even when one looks at the real performance of 'Wind Farms', however.....yet the 'gurus of pretence' seem determined to 'try it on'.
(*)- From the 'defining' of the concept of "Absolute Zero" one reads:-
["The temperature at which all classical molecular motion stops, equal to 0 Kelvin or -273.15° Celsius. However, quantum mechanically, molecules cannot cease all motion (as this would violate the Heisenberg uncertainty principle), so at 0 K they still vibrate with a certain small but nonzero energy known as the zero-point energy."]
The drop to ABSOLUTE ZERO is not the removal of energy that is not 'kinetic', as at 'absolute zero' (hypothetically) ALL molecular/atomic motion is set to NIL. That is to say there is hypothetically NOT any motion of the 'quantum units' that comprise the material. It is NOT the situation that electrons spiral in to the nucleus of atoms/molecules, i.e. intra-molecular compaction but that 'vibrational tension' in the inter-molecular bonds approaches zero.
There is not any REAL solution to electrical supply 'blackout' to be found in 'ZPE', as 'ZPE' is simply the residual kinetic motion of the 'quantum units' comprising a materials that is expected when Absolute Zero is achieved in that material...(see above *). The misnomer of what IS 'absolute zero' is often seen in the 'greenhouse platform' where Energy in Kinetic and Non kinetic forms are commonly CONFUSED in their use. The initial error in interpretation seen again is in what IS 'absolute zero' and the difference tween Kinetic and Non-Kinetic Energy.
This is an inherited 'short sightedness' endemic in the 'greenhouse platform' and spread to those other 'attached lobby platforms' it seems. That PLATFORMS attached to the 'greenhouse political lobby' share these incorrect but 'internally preferred' interpretations and this is obvious. As an example of the lack of Knowledge' in these 'greenhouse related platforms', there is NOT enough Energy in a 'cup of coffee' to evaporate the worlds oceans, it is complete nonscience to suggest such SERIOUSLY, and even as attempt to produce hypothetical conversion of MASS into Energy the Kinetic Energy input to evaporate the entirety of the Water Mass of the Oceans, being ~1.4x(10exp18) tonnes, would readily exceed that available in any cup of Coffee, itself mostly water.
One wonders when REALITY will actually pierce the delusions of the 'greenhouse platform', and if it is worth waiting any longer for that to occur.
Your's,
Peter K. Anderson a.k.a. Hartlod(tm)
From the PC of Peter K Anderson
E-Mail: Hartlod@bigpond.com
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11 comments:
To make a point in SCIENCE more clear, there is not any REAL solution to electrical supply 'blackout' to be found in 'ZPE', as 'ZPE' is simply the residual kinetic motion of materials expected when Absolute Zero is achieved in that material... To phrase the 'issue' differently, there is NOT any ability to refer to ZPE validly as a 'potential energy source', by it's definition 'ZPE' is that residual (Kinetic) Energy within the Quantum Structure of a material at 'Absolute Zero' and as such cannot be 'extracted' due to the manner that the existence of 'ZPE' and 'Absolute Zero' are defined.
Another quote of definition, and these are EASY to find:-
-----
Absolute zero is the point on the thermodynamic (absolute) temperature scale where the heat energy is at a minimum, that is, no more heat can be removed from the system. According to classical physics this temperature would correspond to zero kinetic energy of the particles of the system, in the reference frame of the system's centre of mass ; this, however, is now known to be false—quantum mechanics explains why the energy of a system can never drop below its zero-point energy. .
By international agreement, the Celsius temperature scale starts at absolute zero with the value of exactly -273.15 °C (which approximately agrees with the original definition of the Celsius scale that was based on freezing and boiling point of water). It is approximately -459.67 °F on the Fahrenheit scale. In sciences, where SI units are in use, thermodynamic temperature is measured in kelvins where absolute zero is 0 K. Many engineering fields in the U.S. measure thermodynamic temperature using the Rankine scale where absolute zero is 0 °R.
Scientists have made great advancements in achieving temperatures ever closer to absolute zero (where matter exhibits odd quantum effects. In 1994 the NIST achieved a record cold temperature of 700 nK (billionths of a kelvin). In 2003, researchers at MIT eclipsed this with a new record of 450 pK (0.45 nK).
-----
You only need look at the definition of 'Absolute Zero' to find the point of definition of Zero Point Energy, a concise wording of such I have already included direct form an easy to source reference I have given others. If one actually LOOKED it would be realised the errors produce and the fabrications compounding these in mention of 'ZPE' that have built upon that initial error. It is unfortunate that one "Rick", who is attempting to 'talk up' such feeble nonsense, can only defend that 'opinion' by outright and obvious censorship, as is seen NOW after previous comments have been selectively deleted and instead there is warm welcome given in reading:-
-----
["Post a Comment On: AltEnergyTechnology "Zero Point Energy A Solution to our Energy Crisis?"
Comments on this blog are restricted to team members.
You're currently logged in as Peter K. Anderson aka Hartlod(tm) who is not a team member of this blog.
To login as a different user, fill out the following:
Username ______
Password ______
Comments on this blog are restricted to team members."]
-----
Clearly "Rick" is NOT authoritive and is unable to justify ANY opinion that is presented at http://altenergytechnology.com/ to date (even if some I might agree with if there was modification to accommodate SCIENCE more and 'science fiction' less) and this 'rapid censorship' seems rife amongst those only PRETENDING to be capable, a list of THOSE few will be following in due time.
Your's,
Peter K. Anderson a.k.a. Hartlod(tm)
From the PC of Peter K Anderson
E-Mail: Hartlod@bigpond.com
http://hartlod.blogspot.com/
To notice another 'science fiction' being overplayed in arenas of Electrical Power Production, consider 'global warming' with the realisation of differentiation of the NATURAL, ongoing and irregular process as opposed to the CLAIMS of a supposed 'unnatural greenhouse effect' on this process.
There is nothing needing to be done about 'global warming' except to have realised the NATURAL course of events observations outline. There is not any need to mention or discuss even Human Politics or Social perceptions nor is there any real point of involvement for 'Energy Policy' rhetoric, within actual processes that produce alterations within the Planetary Climate Oscillation. It is infact the attempt to 'play theatre' within such rhetoric that has lost Public interest IN supposed 'greenhouse science' and is NOW losing political interest in its trend to follow public interest.
The People need Electricity, it is used to provide function habitat, medical care, sewerage/water control and it was Electricity that produced the greatest CULTURAL revolution by freeing all these 'mundane tasks' from needing direct application of MECHANICAL power through an engine driven shaft. As such, for example, the SEWERAGE SYSTEM of London could be developed WITHOUT 'pumping engines' placed throughout the city-plex. POWER could be transferred from REMOTE generations utilities for a MORE efficient OVERALL system. This is STILL the situation in ALL developed/developing 'metro-plex' today.
Climate change is natural, with irregular progression, alteration to Turbulence will alter the residual Kinetic Energy within a system, and this residual Kinetic Energy is presented then within 'inverse alterations' in measures of Temperature commonly called 'Turbulence Cooling'. Also, from museum.state.il.us :-
[" If "ice age" is used to refer to long, generally cool, intervals during which glaciers advance and retreat, we are still in one today. Our modern climate represents a very short, warm period between glacial advances. "]
It is also Common Knowledge, and thus commonly known, that there have been ~60 glacial advances within the last ~3 Million year 'Climate Period', outlined in part at (*) in the article 'Glaciers Reborn'. Climate has been 'warming' for the last 20,000 years and will continue to do so for some centuries longer with this process unaffected in any INDICATED & DIRECT manner by Human activity.
Climate change is natural with displayed irregular progression in both the Primary and Secondary 'Oscillatory progressions', the LIE is in the attempts to overlay 'greenhouse opinion' and label such as 'science'.
The PUBLIC will not listen to the 'environmental lie' being platformed in Movies/Novels regarding 'greenhouse climate change supposition'. It is very easy to understand if one steps away from the 'greenhouse wagon' and looks back at that 'vehicle', it remains a POLITICAL platform where 'advocates in white coats' are STILL advocates and where climate is KNOWN to be changing Naturally always at any 'time point' with 'no fixed rate'.
Fabrications of AUTHORS, 'greenhouse warming/climate-change' 'novels & movies' concoct an existence for something that cannot be observed (i.e. in any actual and sufficient ENERGY fluctuation), and attempt to overlay observations already known for existent processes. Just the same 'birth nonscience' that sees 'dark matter' 'talk festing' still being attempted. The great 'dark matter' debacle (resulting from a difference of two rather pretentious attempts to 'give a mass for the Universe', has seen astrophysics/astronomical committees struggle to do something POSITIVE. AS per any committee the action has been to produce LANGUAGE and so the 'solution' is to concoct a name for 'non-planets', the "Pluton" and this was 'heralded' as a 'new discovery' until people realised what was actually done, NOTHING.
So NOTHING in areas where REAL effort PRACTICAL IS required will lead to that situation being seen in NSW and California, Electrical Generation approaching the NOTHING level as this is the REAL 'output of opinion, movies and novels' NONE of which CAN generate Electricity.
Your's,
Peter K. Anderson a.k.a. Hartlod(tm)
From the PC of Peter K Anderson
E-Mail: Hartlod@bigpond.com
As there is seemingly still some little confusion as to what 'Zero Point Energy' is, it is best realised/visualised as that '(kinetic) energy' noticed and obvious in the reasoning as to WHY Helium (as example) will stay as a LIQUID at 'temperatures' near to 'Absolute Zero'...
Within the effort to present 'ZPE' as an 'energy source' the attempt to make 'space' filled with 'ZPE' that might be worth 'gold' in some styled 'tally' FAILS to notice that there needs to be a QUANTUM STRUCTURE presented as MATERIAL there and actual to begin with, NOT JUST 'space' or a 'photon like' wave-form...
Your's, Peter K. Anderson a.k.a. Hartlod(tm)
From the PC of Peter K Anderson
E-Mail: Hartlod@bigpond.com
{PS:- If some of 'the few', only wanting to 'talkfest' it seems, actually COMPREHENDED the 'subjects' and SCIENCE there would NOT be the constant attempts at charade covered by censorship. This post is due to the remonstrations made by 'Rick' as Private Email as response to my efforts to Post polite comment to some articles that where seen linked elsewhere. It seems only 'self interest' pervades many of the activities of 'the few', and not either Environmental OR Public concern as is so often heard mentioned in the remonstrations. Still it does serve as a general window INTO the platforming BENEATH the 'greenhouse/alternative energy' wagon(s).}
{PSS:- In case 'chat' attempts innuendo of myself in any manner, including allusion of 'spamming' or other nonsense and to mention the details AGAIN so to produce a cessation in the blatant LIE production within attempted vilification (from a small number of propagandists) of myself, search in:-
http://pericles.ipaustralia.gov.au/atmoss/falcon.application_start
within a guest login and search on the word ' Hartlod ' or use the TRADE MARK NUMBER being 955863, to gain my details which can be confirmed in the Australian White Pages.
http://www.whitepages.com.au/wp/initResSearch.do?subscriberName=&state=&suburb=&street=
Then perhaps there can be some REAL discussion and much less 'pretence and pretend'...before ALL the lights 'go out'.
Having tired of the abuse from one 'Rick Jaworski' prompted ONLY by myself mentioning 'easy to find' SCIENCE, I will now post 'his' ongoing angst here with the worst words given a 'xx' mask. I dislike needing to do this but anonymity on the internet makes the worst of behavior too common 'these days'...
--
I am not nor have I attempted an insult of 'you' "Rick' and never would, there is not any reason to believe the internet identity outlined as one 'Rick Jaworski' actually exists so such an effort being already pointless would have added also being aimless.
The point 'Rick' of idle students browsing and finding 'your site' is itself moot and shows ONLY why you 'Rick' are attempting to produce censorship so to present a MONOLOGUE of 'opinion'.
As to your allusions 'Rick', I have made my site to counter the lies and innuendo from idle small group behind anonymous identities, as that creation is 'Rick' the IP in Canada you use is seems NOT attached to the Google 'Blog.com'...
Nor am I or have I been, intimidating of anyone 'Rick'.
Little of what 'you' mention is actually true 'Rick', in regard to both myself or the 'opinion' you re-mention being little more than re-hash of fiction that has left SCIENCE behind.
I am not giving 'you' my ideas 'Rick', I am mentioning SCIENCE that 'you' can find so easily it is only that 'you' must prefer to NOT notice and that makes it a deliberate act to platform ignorant opinion with THIS not being 'my opinion' either.
Your obvious angst, seen again in the continuance of private mail you give, shows a tendency to NOT read my (attempted) posts whilst inventing a position to argue against rather than what I Have mentioned.
Again the anonymous 'Rick' identity makes behavioural connections to small group of other propaganderists all of whom have little to no SCIENCE and whose response to SCIENCE is with the style of abuse you give 'Rick'. Your abuse is such that I will make public your latest post (seen below) as it is indicative OF the attitude of the 'alternative-energy/greenhouse' platform when confronted with those presenting SCIENCE that directly contradicts the 'alternative-energy/greenhouse' opinionation.
All 'Rick' has to do is 'Google search' on ABSOLUTE ZERO and ZERO POINT ENERGY. 'Unseemly' ABUSE is apparently more 'Ricks' forte and best 'defence'...all those who can point out flaws in the 'opinion' of 'Rick' instantly labelled a "jxxk" it seems.
Your's
Peter K. Anderson a.k.a. Hartlod(tm)
From the PC of Peter K Anderson
E-Mail: Hartlod@bigpond.com
In Response to:-
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Jaworski [mailto:rjaworski@altenergytechnology.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 11:25 PM
To: Hartlod
Subject: Re: Censorship is not going to work 'Rick'
You can insult me all you like, I really don't care. The objective of a web site IS to be public, and I don't mind that. Funny how with all the traffic I've had, many from universities, you are the only jxxk that is bad mouthing my work. And no I won't even bother reading anything written by someone and brash and closed minded as you. You think you can impress your ideas on someone by intimidating and insulting them. That doesn't work with me. Go find someone else to bug that will pay attention to your sxxt. You know had I not been to Australia a few times I'd get a bad taste in my mouth for Aussies by listening to you. But I know they are nice people, you are just another jxxk like we have here in the US.
-----
It seems the effort to justify censorship is ALL the 'alternative energy/greenhouse' platform is interested in as private ridicule seems preferred to open comment, as again demonstrated by 'Rick'.
My response again to the latest piece of inaccurate vitriolic. Again I will post this in Public to produce a cessation of your innuendo 'Rick' and perhaps get you to have OPEN discussion on the topics, rather than rant against myself, Peter K Anderson.:-
-----
Actually Rick, there is nothing to link the individual behind the 'emails' to a "Rick Jaworski", having the patent list helps IF those patents include suitable identification and address details matching a billing address for an Internet account AND there is obvious use of the ISP account for (all) communications. 'System of testing the upstream cable modem channel' is NOT sufficient to show this "Rick' and is not in any manner sufficient for you to justify your obvious censorship.
Next to look at your attempts at misinformation as to what I am saying.
Firstly there is NOT any need to hide behind a Canadian Host, and Blogger.com is a separate entity run by Google that offers a FREE service, NOT one for 'commercial intent'. Also as has been mentioned by myself often, I do have a Blogger.com site you just are not reading what is mentioned "Rick' being consumed in your own 'opinions' of 'what is' it seem.
Next, I am pointing out that SCIENCE is showing flaws in your opinion 'Rick' and that your behavior is obviously produced to avoid notice of this, and this is continued by 'you' attempting to allude anything I mention is either 'my opinion' or 'abuse'. You only need 'Google' on 'Absolute Zero' and 'Zero Point Energy' to find those quotes I have mentioned so far.
Neither 'Rick' have I got 'personal' as so far I have not done more than point out flaws in interpretation with there NOT only NO 'personal attacks' but no 'manipulation'.
You only need to do some basic research "Rick" to realise your errors, instead you launch into vilification, innuendo and attempted belittlement of myself simply as you cannot overcome the few points I raised in comments to your 'site'.
So perhaps 'Rick', if you look at even Google and notice the references to 'Zero Point Energy' as it is defined with regard to 'Absolute Zero', as it is these I have so far mentioned.
NO personal attacks on YOU 'Rick' just attempts to understand why 'you' would attempt to shutter up 'your site' to SCIENCE so suddenly, and with sudden and unjustifiable censorship. There is not many rational answers that can be made of your behavior that do NOT involve 'furtive attitudes'.
You are 'not hiding' "Rick'? You are not even being honest in regard to what I have so far attempted in comment, let alone about why you are so insistent on propagander of monologous nonscience drawn from 'books and novels'. Also 'Rick' when you start 'moderating' ALL posts to your 'site' go to your nominated email...
Your's,
Peter K. Anderson a.k.a. Hartlod(tm)
From the PC of Peter K Anderson
E-Mail: Hartlod@bigpond.com
http://hartlod.blogspot.com/
In Response to:-
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Jaworski [mailto:rjaworski@altenergytechnology.com]
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 1:53 PM
To: Hartlod
Subject: Re: Censorship is not going to work 'Rick'
I always find your emails entertaining.
Yes I'm very real. But you are right, my real name is Richard, not Rick so I'm not totally correct. If you would like proof check out this link to one of my issued patents at the US Patent Office that clearly states my name and where I live in Alpharetta GA:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=4&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=Jaworski.INNM.&OS=IN/Jaworski&RS=IN/Jaworski
Yes my site is hosted in Canada, you can host there too, anyone can. Its called rackforce.com and its a good deal if you host many sites. Even people from Australia host there. Do I have to explain the simple concept of the Internet to you and how distance is irrelevant? Blogger.com simply handles the indexing and publishing to my own site in Canada.
So I'm not hiding anything. I do find this quite entertaining how its so important for you to convince me I'm wrong which is why I keep responding.
So what if I'm wrong (and I'm not) what difference does it make to you? Why do you need to convince me so badly? You are a half a world away and somehow you think you can intimidate me into agreeing with you. I really find that fascinating because I wouldn't bend to your manipulation tactics if you were my next door neighbor let alone on the other side of the world.
But I will keep responding as long as you do because I like to learn all the tactics manipulators like you use so I can learn to counter them when they really do matter in my life. But you are going to need to do better then
saying I'm not real, that was a pretty poor comeback. And getting personal
like you have is also a tired tactic, that just tells me you have no argument.
'Rick' is still at it...sorry but it is I hope instructive of HOW the 'greenhouse/alternative-energy' platforming is 'supported' by 'private mail harassment'...
As sent to 'Rick':-
-----
You persist 'Rick' in attempting to make allusion that pointing out flaws within your platformed opinion with regard to SCIENCE is somehow being 'closed minded'.
You persist 'Rick' in attempting to cover what can only be described as a lack off comprehension of the SCIENCE involved by attack on those mentioning such flaws in your outlines.
You are seemingly now attempting to alter what was never a point of MY discussion, produced actually by your attacks on myself, into the 'major issue'. Again this can ONLY be due to a realisation from yourself of the paucity of SCIENCE behind your 'opinion' regarding 'Zero Point Energy'. It is simply that you made an error 'Rick' in a field that is prone to misinterpretation and perhaps wish to BELIEVE the 'books; from 'authors' that postulate 'free energy' from (near) 'nothing', but is only idle hope and fantasy 'Rick'. It is NOT even 'your idea' so I am confounded by the aggressive nature of your attacks.
You have not even bothered it seems 'Rick' to even do what others have done and LOOKED at the definition of 'Zero Point Energy' and then at the erroneous extrapolations continued in 'claims' such as:-
["Quantum theory predicts, and experiments verify, that so-called empty space (the vacuum) contains an enormous residual background energy known as zero-point energy or ZPE."]
Infact there seems to be that 'ZPE theory' is attempting to rewrite Quantum Theory in terms of 'thermodynamic concepts' including 'entropy'.
To quote again:-
["Experimentally, the emphasis has been to demonstrate an energy device whose power output exceeds the power input as measured through conventional methods."]
Which indicates EXACTLY the psychology of the 'ZPE theorists' as it is that the 'crux' of their issue (and pursuit) is the attempt to produce the 'nonlinear-thermodynamic equivalent' of the 'perpetual motion machine' being that 'icon' of the 'Mechanical Age' that was containing the 'Industrial Revolution'.
There is NOT any level of 'obnoxiousness' from me 'Rick' you again seem 'disassociated' in your reply and still seem NOT to have read what I have 'said' which is the apparent case from the very outset of your attacks. Nor do I ["piss people of"] 'Rick', I simply point out the weakness in their 'opinions' and it seems that 'climate/alternate-energy' groups are festooned with opinionated individuals, educated by reading 'Novels' but with very little actual comprehension of SCIENCE.
I was infact a member of the Yahoo 'ClimateConcern' Group (if that is the 'group' you mention) for a number of YEARS 'Rick, but CENSORSHIP by 'Ross' meant that posts that where not 'greenhouse positive' practically never appeared, so there where NOT any great number of posts from me to read and not any point is made by 'you' Rick except to indicate WHERE 'the uncomprehending post'. Infact looking at my online archive I cannot find a post appearing in that group from myself back to May 2005. My offline archive could extend THAT readily back to 2002 I am sure with barely a handful of appearances, such is the effort to PROPAGANDA, and it ALWAYS needs 'protection'. You might also like the Yahoo 'Globalwarming' group also 'Rick', filled with MANY of the same 'people' (perhaps using different 'identities') also 'Rick', it has the same level of censorship and last time I looked there was debate as to the actual existence of Atoms... Some others think 'alien technology' might help. all great reading I am sure...
I notice also 'Rick' that your 'posts' are showing a certain 'community' style of dialect, how many actual people are hiding behind the Canadian IP and 'non-account' email? There is NOT any identification of 'Rick from that 'patent', it is NOT able to show WHO is typing and link such to ANY 'real identification' and certainly the variation in attitude is indicative of the FEW from Yahoo (including the egotists in the ClimateConcern/Globalwarming groups) who cannot comprehend SCIENCE and seem to consider 'research' as 'reading journalistic opinion'. I do not ["piss people of"] 'Rick', I simply point out the weakness in their 'opinions' and it seems that 'climate/alternate-energy' groups are festooned with opinionated individuals, educated by reading 'Novels' but with very little actual comprehension of SCIENCE.
Infact I do think my points ARE 'getting across' "Rick' and this revelation is made to me by noticing the rapidity that a SMALL number of REAL people produce to activate CENSORSHIP for no real reason. It is also that these FEW use the same FORMULISTIC attempt to attack the individual and avoid actual discussion. I am I suppose 'easy to follow' using my REAL name and ISP account email ALL the time, 'these few' also dislike their 'private attacks' being made public knowledge, you would think by now they would stop 'the attacks' rather than continue to whine..
It is very odd 'Rick' that 'you(all)' would go to so much effort to stifle discussion, then attempt to call others' 'narrow-minded'. Infact 'Rick' I have already stated that on many 'points of interest' I agree with 'you' (at least one of 'you' anyway') and that all that would be required is for 'you(all)' to include more SCIENCE and less fiction to stimulate real discussion of real & practical remediations. Which brings us back to "ZPE" and the initial posts I made regarding 'bio-diesel'...
Your's,
Peter K. Anderson a.k.a. Hartlod(tm)
From the PC of Peter K Anderson
E-Mail: Hartlod@bigpond.com
In Response to:-
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Jaworski [mailto:rjaworski@altenergytechnology.com]
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 10:49 PM
To: Hartlod
Subject: Re: Censorship is not going to work 'Rick'
Then don't believe who I am, I really don't care then. If you are so closed minded to think that maybe I am who I say I am, then you are also too closed minded to have a suitable debate on the science of this. I would have debated this science with you had you not been so obnoxious. People like you don't deserve a debate which is why I won't even address any of the issues you raise.
So post all my emails publically, go for it. Whatever! By the way, how come I don't see your posts on the Climate list anymore? Did you piss them off too? Sounds like a trend. Your ranting is really working isn't it and getting your point across. People just turn you off.
It seems 'Rick' found the conversation 'getting too close' and has ceased finally responding, silence is far preferable to abuse.
As a final mention of 'Zero Point Energy' it seems that the attempt is to present such as a 'thermodynamic equivalent' of the Quantum notion of the Singularity. This I did attempt to mention in those Yahoo groups above mentioned but again censorship was made to remove any actual discussion at the time 'flowing' as 'Rick' is attempting to relate under a platform of monologous opinion.
One attempted post to 'Ricks' site was this (with minor additions to further the illustration of point for this little site:-
-----
The most suitable manner to produce bio-diesel enmasse is not on a personal level, but in small mass produced utility installations run in a co-op style in Rural Regions. The near prefab- style could readily be made to accept a range of crop/bio sources with minimal alteration to a base design, manufactured for distribution with National borders and meeting National/International criteria.
The export market for such engineering even to the poorer Nations would be huge. There is not even a need to use 'food crops'. There is already greater ability to produce 'food' than there is to consume it or even export to 'viable markets'. World Hunger is simply a hallmark of a systemic distribution & 'market economic' paucity.
The future of agronomy is NOT in food cropping, but in bio-oil production.
-----
This was mailed to 'Rick' as ["Silence is preferred to your abuse 'Rick'..."] but as noting mailed from myself has seemingly been read I do this from politeness and training.
My only real effort was to discuss Bio-Diesel, it seems however that discussion of practical mass production of Bio Fuel Oil will NOT be happening at altenergytechnology.com and most certainly only abuse will seemingly follow any attempt it seems to have such (posted as a general warning). Robust opinion can withstand discussion after all, and it is robust opinion that can lead to practical remediation of REAL problems, perhaps that is why so little REAL discussion is had in regard to 'greenhouse' concepts and of those 'lobby platforms' reliant on the 'greenhouse scare'.
Your's
Peter K. Anderson a.k.a. Hartlod(tm)
From the PC of Peter K Anderson
E-Mail: Hartlod@bigpond.com
In Response to:-
-----Original Message-----
From: rjaworski@altenergytechnology.com [mailto:rjaworski@altenergytechnology.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 2:28 AM
To: hartlod@bigpond.com
Subject: Re: RE: Censorship is not going to work 'Rick'
Rick Jaworski is no longer accepting email from you.
Hopefully the last from 'Rick' (and his 'helpers'), and is below as sent to 'Rick' as reply...
---
If this means 'Rick' that I am spared your abuse any further then 'automate' all you can, it is still that your opinions obviously are not able to withstand any level of real discussion.
Also as I have NOT sent you any mail to generate your 'reply' I wonder at the actual levels of disassociation presented in 'your attitude' exceeding even that which is obvious...
My last mail to 'you' "Rick" was replied to with the title:-
["Re: Silence is preferred to your abuse 'Rick'..."]
with that being sent with time stamp of"-
["Saturday, August 19, 2006 8:12 PM."]
Apart from pretentious 'officiousness' is there any ability in SCIENCE behind the 'rjaworski@altenergytechnology.com' contact?
If you cannot hold a discussion 'Rick' do not continue to spam me in this quasi-officious attitude the 'few' like to pretend to.
Your's
Peter K. Anderson a.k.a. Hartlod(tm)
From the PC of Peter K Anderson
E-Mail: Hartlod@bigpond.com
Http://hartlod.blogspot.com/
In Response to:-
From: Rick Jaworski [mailto:rjaworski@altenergytechnology.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 11:28 PM
To: Hartlod
Subject: RE: Censorship is not going to work 'Rick'
This is an automated message that Rick Jaworski is no longer receiving email from you. Your message has been deleted. Please do not email again or you will receive this message again.
To better understand WHY 'Rick & his team' (and those locations that behave in similar manner) are intent on stifling discussion, one only need look at the article titled 'The Debate on Wind Power' now appearing at altenergytechnology.com.
There in 'Rick and his team' diligently produce a supposed overview, 'greenhouse cantered' in its bias that totally overlooks the inability OF 'Wind Power' utilities to actually produce the power needed to actually replace standard Gas or Coal utilities. It is the rather futile and NARROW outlook of those others like (and including) 'Rick & his team' that are leading to the wide scale use of URANIUM as fuel when infact there is NOT any valid reason to not make sensible use of Coal or Gas fuelled Utilities.
The LACK of real performance of "Wind Utilities' is needing only the existing Utilities performance to be noticed and then be realised that it is NOT at all of ANY consequence the cost of ''Wind Power', there is simply NOT enough power generated BY 'Wind Utilities' to perform the task 'those like (& including) "Rick & his Team' like to OPINION at.
Again I will mail this post (in content) to 'Rick' and place in the Yahoo group 'Powertothepeople'. I do notice that 'Rick & his team' have found some very once pictures, pity they did not try to notice more FACT and SCIENCE over 'their' seemingly preferred fiction and scenery (chewing) (mono) oratory.
It is the visible attitude of 'political & moral correctness' that pervades the 'green(house) minority' that is the cause of their short-sightedness. It is NOT that the MAJORITY are people who are claiming 'not in their backyard'. The PROBLEM is that the 'green(house) minority' are NOT suggesting anything that is TRULY practical. Again notice the 15 MW from two Wind utilities in NSW as opposed to the 380 Mw from 'hydro' utilities and 2700 Mw from one Coal Utility for generation systems within just ONE power generation company in NSW (Australia).
Time to get real, to realise that the 'greenhouse wagon' is painted YELLOW with black logos and propelled by propagander of opinion and belief, but little that is either REAL or practical. As 'Rick and his team' cannot discuss these issued elsewhere, then perhaps the 'powertothepeople' Yahoo group can provide a suitable OPEN forum...
Your's,
Peter K. Anderson a.k.a. Hartlod(tm)
From the PC of Peter K Anderson
E-Mail: Hartlod@bigpond.com
I have received an e-mail commenting on comment regarding ZPE, perhaps made in error to myself directly rather than to the site so I respond here also.
That e-mail in content I present here withholding the provided email address of the other correspondent:-
-----
From: -snipped-
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 1:27 PM
To: Hartlod@bigpond.com
Subject: ZPE
on your page, http://hartlod.blogspot.com/, you mention the failed hope of ZPE being capable of producing power for the world. You misunderstand ZPE as it it being used by the alternative energy forum such as here http://users.erols.com/iri/ZPEpaper.html
or here http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/ZPE/index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_particle
Cordially, -snipped-.
-----
I have looked infact at these 'articles', please notice the reference from that first link:-
["For the first time in history, a lot of media attention is being paid to the sea of energy that pervades all of space. It just happens to be the biggest sea of energy that is known to exist and we’re floating inside it. (Credit due to The Sea of Energy by T. Henry Moray for the idea.) "]
There is no SPECIAL definition of ZPE that can be made just for 'alternative energy interests' and most certainly individuals running 'websites' dealing with 'alternative energy issues' Need to be ABLE to comprehend the difference tween FICTION (i.e. ZPE as an energy source) and SCIENCE where in ZPE is but the residual KINETIC ENERGY of a materials quantum structure when that material is at ABSOLUTE ZERO. Notice also the quote from the first link mentioned:-
["Zero point energy has been called "the ultimate quantum free lunch" (Science, Vol. 275, 1/10/97).."]
The SAME attitude is applied to the Quantum Notion of the SINGULARITY.
For opposed example, from a simple search (in Google using Absolute "Zero Point Energy"), ZPE is found defined with some explanation there-in with and as:-
["Quantum mechanics predicts the existence of what are usually called ''zero-point'' energies for the strong, the weak and the electromagnetic interactions, where ''zero-point'' refers to the energy of the system at temperature T=0, or the lowest quantized energy level of a quantum mechanical system. Although the term ''zero-point energy'' applies to all three of these interactions in nature, customarily (and hereafter in this article) it is used in reference only to the electromagnetic case."]
The QUANTUM structure mentioned above is NOT the internal structure of atoms/molecules but that structure that FORMS tween these Quantum units, i.e. the INTERMOLECULAR BONDS.
To continue:-
["In conventional quantum physics, the origin of zero-point energy is the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, which states that, for a moving particle such as an electron, the more precisely one measures the position, the less exact the best possible measurement of its momentum (mass times velocity), and vice versa. The least possible uncertainty of position times momentum is specified by Planck's constant, h. A parallel uncertainty exists between measurements involving time and energy (and other so-called conjugate variables in quantum mechanics). This minimum uncertainty is not due to any correctable flaws in measurement, but rather reflects an intrinsic quantum fuzziness in the very nature of energy and matter springing from the wave nature of the various quantum fields. This leads to the concept of zero-point energy."]
So ZERO POINT ENERGY is INFACT the Energy of that FIELD forming within, and of, that collection of Atoms/Molecules within 'the material' with this FIELD being still in existence when that materials structure is placed at ABSOLUTE ZERO. Many months ago I did mention the feasibility of MATTER SIMULATION, the 'basic' concept of the formation of an ENERGY FIELD that present behavior of being 'solid matter'. This Energy Field is the 'force field' or 'shield' seen in so many 'Space Exploration' fiction works. It is ALSO the basis of the' STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY FIELD, 'famous' from the story genre of 'Star Trek'.
The RELEVANCE of this ZPE 'energy field' is in the REAL and TRUE nature of this Energy, which CAN possible BE 'found', but it is NOT going to be an 'energy source' as the references to that involve a 'projection of presence' that is derived without the 'parent quantum structure' being present. The ANALOGY you make unwittingly 'Milan' is seen in the quotes regarding ZPE as 'energy alike that seen in 'splitting an atom'. It is not such at all. No 'explosion is made when you 'rend' a piece of paper into confetti.
Also for general information, WikipediA is NOT a regarded reference, it is a 'self styled and a edited' "Open Weblog". Dealing with some who claim 'attachment' to 'wiki' and detailing those 'identities' behaviours indicated this to myself AND to others, so there is not regarded a relevance or valid reference within 'Wiki links'; a 'nice idea' most surely but 'it' is not 'working'.
As I have mentioned to 'others', to use the Internet in a valid manner for research it is needing to know WHAT it is you look for, and then search with the correct information and COMPREHENSION of what it is you find...
Thanking you for you correspondence, your's cordially,
Peter K. Anderson a.k.a. Hartlod(tm)
From the PC of Peter K Anderson
E-Mail: Hartlod@bigpond.com
I have received an e-mail commenting on comment regarding ZPE, perhaps made in error to myself directly rather than to the site so I respond here also.
That e-mail in content I present here withholding the provided email address of the other correspondent:-
-----begin-----
From: -snipped-
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 10:25 AM
To: Hartlod
Subject: RE: ZPE
Hello and thank you for replying.
I must applologise for not being very clear (unlike yourself). I type slow and therefore paint the picture with a broad brush but that leads to generalizations and missunderstanding. (unlike yourself, which is admirable/commendable. You write in great detail and I appreciate that. What is your background/forte? I find little in a way of self-description on your site). I did not mean to imply that YOU missunderstood the concept or definition of ZPE but the fact is that there are people who propound the idea that ZPE is a VERY dense sea of energy and not just a feble "residual KINETIC ENERGY of a materials quantum structure when that material is at ABSOLUTE ZERO" as you put it. From one article I submitted bellow (http://www.seaspower.com/InsideZeroPoint-Valone.htm) the author, Thomas Valone, M.A., P.E. of Integrity Research Institute, writes...
" For the first time in history, a lot of media attention is being paid to the sea of energy that pervades all of space. It just happens to be the biggest sea of energy that is known to exist and we’re floating inside it. (Credit due to The Sea of Energy by T. Henry Moray for the idea.) Not only is it big but its energy is estimated to exceed nuclear energy densities, so even a small piece of it is worth its weight in gold".
In the same article Mr. Valone goes on to say that the ZPE is described as an elecrodynamic phenomenon, via a quote from The New Scientist (July 1987, “Why Atoms Don’t Collapse”) gives an impressive endorsement of the importance of ZPE:
“There is a dynamic equilibrium in which the zero-point energy stabilizes the electron in a set ground-state orbit. It seems that the very stability of matter itself appears to depend on an underlying sea of electromagnetic zero-point energy.”
Then there is the big proponent of harnesing energy out of the vacuum of space, Tom Bearden, who is a PhD and on his site, http://www.cheniere.org/, he quite vehemently states and scientiffically suports the idea that the ZPE is a VERY dense energy field/source. The favor of your reply is requested.
Sincerely,
-snipped-
-----end-----
It is that the basic notion as you again present for 'ZPE' is derived from ideas of a few authors of BOOKS, not at all is ZPE 'pervading space'. The very definition of ZPE, i.e. Zero Point Energy, is the Energy (via link to Theories involving 'location uncertainly' there is a 'Kinetic' aspect also, i.e. a defined link to that (Kinetic Energy) measured in observations of Temperature of Matter) that exists within the Quantum Structure of a material when that material (as a observed in a macro scale) is taken to 'Absolute Zero'. That is how ZPE is defined, as I have mentioned previously perform that simple Goggle Search:-
["Quantum mechanics predicts the existence of what are usually called ''zero-point'' energies for the strong, the weak and the electromagnetic interactions, where ''zero-point'' refers to the energy of the system at temperature T=0, or the lowest quantized energy level of a quantum mechanical system. Although the term ''zero-point energy'' applies to all three of these interactions in nature, customarily (and hereafter in this article) it is used in reference only to the electromagnetic case."]
It is that this Energy (ZPE) is that Energy particular to both that material AND the particular structure that cannot be otherwise removed. It is thus that Energy 'defining' that Material in that particular Quantum Structure. The ERROR inherent in the 'authored visions' you 'reference' is that it is divergent to the actual Definition of ZPE as made in SCIENCE, which is that the Zero Point Energy is defined for a Quantum Structure, NOT of Individual Atoms, or even Molecules, so the orbital electrons of such are NOT directly involved. The transitions of such electrons in FREE atoms is also NOT involved nor are variations in energy from such transitions. If you need an analogous concept of what ZPE is, it is that Energy which maintains the STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY of a material by 'allowing', or facilitating, the 'disassociated state' of those Electrons that form the QUANTUM LATTICE (that is defining for an example the SOLID presented at the more 'Macro' level of observation) to remain disassociated even AT 'Absolute Zero'.
If ZPE did not exist then at Absolute Zero there would not be any possible structure to matter beyond 'Atomic' or 'Molecular' formation. It is NOT however by definition even involved in the control of the FORM of an ATOM, and as such the authors visions you present are at the most basic level INVALID in their use and interpretation of the SCIENCE involved. There is NOT any 'free energy' most certainly there is NOT ZPE exceeding 'nuclear density', it is that a small number of persons made a basic mistake. There was no special 'media attention', the situation was more akin to that which heralded the publishing of "Chariots of the Gods", and the entire situation has never been representative of SCIENCE even in notice of existent definitions.
If you 'remove' ZPE from a Quantum structure then you would 'disintegrate' that structure back to free atoms/molecules. To do such would require such 'negating force' to be projected however and so the conundrum is that projection can be used to either reinforce a Quantum Structure by strengthening it, or lowering its inherent ZPE so that it 'falls apart'. "ZPE" is not an energy source, it is a field both produced by the coalescence of atoms/molecules into a structure and that field that then maintains that particular structure, and that in altering that "field's properties" one could hypothetically alter the quantum structure of that material. This adds to the possibilities from SCIENCE the ability to produce material forms by introduction of 'base matter' into a 'field generation unit' which in some FICTION works might be called a REPLICATOR.
SO we have STRONG possibilities from SCIENCE for manipulation of ZPE to be a TOOL to disassociate Quantum Structures (a 'disintegrator'), or FORM Quantum Structures under 'detail control' (a 'REPLICATOR' that could 'weave a quantum structure') or maintain structural integrity in a manner that a WELD can only be 'dreamed of becoming' (as a STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY FIELD). There is NOT however in the definition of "ZPE" from within SCIENCE a potential to generate 'free energy' and ZPE cannot BY DEFINITION exist in an 'empty vacuum'...
Your's
Peter K. Anderson a.k.a. Hartlod(tm)
From the PC of Peter K Anderson
E-Mail: Hartlod@bigpond.com
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